Shifting problem after a drop

[Steppin Razor]

Hi all.  I'm a newb rider, and while practicing, I dropped the bike on the left side coming off a stop sign.  It wouldn't shift after that, so I checked the lever to make sure it wasn't hitting and worked my way in from there.  I drained the oil, took off the clutch basket, and checked the gearshift arm, hoping it was a spring that popped off, but no luck. Turns out the drum stopper would not slot into the cam spots for it as I shifted it. I took the cam off and checked the pins, but they weren't bent. So I don't know where to go from here other than splitting the case, which I'm not knowledgeable enough to do on my own and costs could be as much as I paid for the bike.  This is the issue


The bike is in great shape otherwise, and titled.

[Bob H]

I am not a trans expert - but it is hard to believe such a low speed incident would damage your tranny.

Was the shift LEVER impacted - BENT? Dropping a bike usually damages a clutch or brake lever on the handlebars, not something that actually transfers force to the transmission.

If it was my bike I would think outside the box, like putting it in gear and moving the rear wheel back and forth. It kind of sounds like a partial shift, maybe it can be bitch-slapped into compliance.

Looks like a really nice bike, how many miles on it?

[Steppin Razor]

13,500.  It's in otherwise great condition, no dents on the tank, no chrome pitting on forks or fenders, clean exhaust. Just a little clearcoat fade on the side panels.

It seems crazy to me too, and everyone else I've asked for help from (FB groups).  All I can figure is maybe it was a straw that broke the camel's back on something else that was ready to go.  Given the condition of the bike though, that would surprise me just as much.

Shift lever is not bent.  The rubber is scuffed on the end, that's it.  I was not able to disengage it from gear after fiddling with trying to get that drum stopper to drop in the cam plate slots.  I've been just setting it aside to deal with at my leisure (this happened maybe Sept), but circumstances have changed to where I need it moved.  I'd rather not part it out because it's a clean and titled bike, but had no luck selling it locally.
I've only wrenched on one other bike before, more experience with cars, so I'm holding out hope it's something stupid and I just don't know what I don't know, but splitting the case is definitely out of my league.

[Bob H]

Shift lever is not bent.  The rubber is scuffed on the end, that's it.  I was not able to disengage it from gear after fiddling with trying to get that drum stopper to drop in the cam plate slots.

Doesn't seem like much force was placed on the tranny from that low speed drop.
Usually the shift lever doesn't make contact with the ground.

If a shift fork was damaged you would have to split the case to access it.
If the shift fork isn't bent, it may just be stuck between gears.

Is it stuck in a gear? Stuck in neutral? Are you absolutely certain the clutch was fully disengaging after the bike was dropped? Was there any damage to the clutch lever?

I have not had that exact issue before - but did you try the suggestion of moving the rear wheel?
Either on center stand, or in gear pushing the bike back and forth.

[Steppin Razor]

Clutch was fully disengaged.  Letting it out without enough throttle is why I dropped it. It's stuck in gear or in between.

I moved the wheel when I was trying to get the stopper to drop into position.  I was actually able to get it to change gear a few times, but it would snap back when the stopper wouldn't drop into place.  I also took the cam plate off, to see if the pins mounted to it were bent, but they were not.

Pulling the clutch lever now does disengage it, but let go and it's stuck.

[Bob H]

It's stuck in gear or in between.

...Pulling the clutch lever now does disengage it, but let go and it's stuck.

If there is any question as to if it is stuck IN GEAR or just JAMMED somehow, I would try push starting it.
It is either going to skid the rear tire, or turn the engine over.
You drained the oil - maybe check that out with ignition off. If the engine turns over, you could put oil in and see if it starts, runs - unjams.

If you aren't sure if it is locked up or not due to engine compression, pull the plugs and try pushing and letting clutch out.
Troubleshooting is a process of elimination, and gaining some facts along the way.

...I've been just setting it aside to deal with at my leisure (this happened maybe Sept)

If this doesn't resolve quickly, I would drain the float bowls immediately.
If you let it sit until spring you may be doing a carb rebuild as well - they don't like to sit very long.

[Steppin Razor]

Fuel bowls were drained.  Stupid corngas.  It's a few month old problem, I did that when I knew it wouldn't be an easy fix.

Right now the rear tire doesn't spin if I try pushing the bike, but I'll pull the plugs and work the clutch once it's not freezing here in TX (which should be tomorrow).

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

[Pete in PA]

I also can't believe a light fall could mess up the shifting inside the engine.

I've crashed my XR650L off-road and turned my shifter into a pretzel. removed it, hammered it straight, and keep riding.

[Steppin Razor]

OK, as soon as it stoppe being cold, it started being wet, so I just got to it today.  Taking out the spark plugs helped.  I was able to get the drum stopper (the wheel in my tiny pic up there) to slot into the cam plate in first gear.  Had trouble getting it to go up from there, so I removed the spring on the shifter arm to see if I could get the stopper to land where it should by hand.  I had to spin the drum by hand a couple of gears, but it did drop into place once that was done.  Hooked the spring back up to the shifter arm do that it would engage the cam plate again and worked it through the gears, turning the drum when I had to.  Seemed to work.

The drum spins as long as the engine is turning, right?  Even in neutral?

In any case, I buttoned it back up and have a few questions.  When I reinstalled the clutch basket, I installed the washer labeled outside out, and the nut with the beveled face out.  Is that correct? 

I made a tool from a 15/16 socket to get it off and to put it back on.  I used my cordless impact driver (not wrench) and gave it three bumps of the impact.  Is that sufficient? I would estimate it's probably around 25-30 ft/lbs

After I had it buttoned up and was installing the four bolts with the springs behind, I noticed that the clutch basket was a tooth off on the starter gear than it was when I pulled it off.  Is that a problem or does it not matter?

Thanks in advance

[Bob H]

Disclaimer - I had a Honda 450 back in the 1970's but I am not an expert on your model bike.

I used my cordless impact driver (not wrench) and gave it three bumps of the impact.  Is that sufficient?

Do you have a torque wrench? If not, maybe Autozone can lend you one. I did my 750 clutch earlier this year, it is pretty simple to push down the brake with it in gear and ease the torque wrench to spec.
If that isn't available to you - I would just ride it.

After I had it buttoned up and was installing the four bolts with the springs behind, I noticed that the clutch basket was a tooth off on the starter gear than it was when I pulled it off.  Is that a problem or does it not matter?

I don't think it matters. It's not like cam-valve timing, or ignition timing. I don't thing there is any timing whatsoever associated with that.

I would put oil in it and fire it up. Based on the low speed drop, I think your bike should be back to normal.

[Steppin Razor]

Thanks.  Didn't realize it was so easy to hold in place with the brake.  I'll put the torque wrench on it tomorrow and hunt for the spec now.

[Pete in PA]

I dont know how much riding experince you have.  Some bikes don't shift well at a standstill or hardly at all.  They like the wheels turning. at a stand still you have to double clutch or rock the bike back an forth.

You have a centerstand right?  Put it up and with the engine off you can go through the gears by moving the rear wheel while pushing up on the shifter.

[mollusc]

Bikes don't have syncromesh, so gear changes won't be complete until the transmission is rotated (either by the engine or by the wheels) so the teeth can align.

[Steppin Razor]

I dont know how much riding experince you have.  Some bikes don't shift well at a standstill or hardly at all.  They like the wheels turning. at a stand still you have to double clutch or rock the bike back an forth.

You have a centerstand right?  Put it up and with the engine off you can go through the gears by moving the rear wheel while pushing up on the shifter.

Not much experience.  Probably an hour outside of the 2 day MSF course.  I have experience working on cars/trucks, and a little bit working on a non-running cb360.

It's on the centerstand.  I was able to get it to drop in gear.

I buttoned it up this morning and swapped to a tracker handlebar, but have a couple new issues.  One is the clutch pull is like one of those grip exercisers.  I thought I could adjust it at the two ends of the cable, but so far neither direction is really making it any easier to pull.  The other is the throttle return is not snapping back, I think because my tracker bars are not only shorter in height, but also length, so there's slack.  Was about to pull off the tank to reach it but it started raining.

Any ideas on the cable pull?  I'd hate to have to pull the cover back off now that it's refilled with oil.


Also found the plugs were sooty, so I'll swap those out and then see what the new ones look like after I get it moving again.

[mollusc]

You won't be able to adjust cable tension at the cable ends.  Normally tension like that is a function of the clutch springs or of the routing of the cable itself.