Can this relay work for new LED indicators? (with pics)

[ThePowster]

Evening chaps.

Oooookay so today I managed to get some free time and I got the Nighthawk out and I managed to tidy up the rear licence plate, put new LED indicators on all round, and then I gave it a go on the button.

The relay is clicking far too fast, not to worry I thought as I had bought a 2-pin (I know, I know) adjustable 12v relay which I was told would do the trick.

I found the relay, unplugged it and um.. there are 3 wires, not 2 




So my first question is...  Can this relay work? I am guessing not being a 2-pin.

My second question is, what kind of a relay is going to work on the Nighthawk with a 3-pin rectangle plug like that?

Would I need a 3-pin 12v adjustable relay and then disassemble the wires from that connector and re-wire it to the new relay?

As you can see I don't know what I am doing 

Any help would be so awesome, and thank you in advance.

P.S. I had trouble with the front indicators, both would come on and then when you indicate and cancel only one would stay lit and the other that was activated would go off. The new LED indicators only have 2 wires, so I got the multimeter out and, I think one side has a green wire (negative) an orange wire (live)  and an orange and white stripe wire. I believe that is the always on wire which we don't require here in the UK, so if you don't want the indicators lit all the time then you need to disconnect the stripe wire on each side. I always wondered how to solve this and today I figured it out.

[Bob H]

The relay is clicking far too fast...

By now you have likely run across the term "hyperflash" and researched it.
My bike is a '93 but the harness looks like yours and I got the adaptor to a great flasher for LED turn signals - only to discover that the hyperflash continued.

for me, it was a crazy situation of the flash INDICATOR (by the handlebars). I searched it and found that on older bikes with filament bulb in the gauges, it will still hyperflash unless you put the resistors in there (which may have come with your turn signals, they came with my cheap and expensive turn signals). the only other alternative was to change the bulb in the gauge cluster that tells you the turn signal is on. One thing led to another - so I said screw it and put in the resistors (4).

So if your bike behaves like mine, you can just use your old flasher unit and put the resistors in place. There is nothing wrong with doing that, I have been running resistors for about 3 years with LED turn signals.

My second question is, what kind of a relay is going to work on the Nighthawk with a 3-pin rectangle plug like that?

Do a search for K&S Flasher Relay 24-0005 because it comes with an adaptor that went from my flat style connector (looks like yours, although mine is different year) and connects to their flasher.
Don't know if this Amazon link works in your area, but it shows the adaptor cable https://www.amazon.com/Technologies-Type-Flasher-Relay-24-0005/dp/B0013LDMLO

The site I use to host images is whacked out - not sure why. I have a photo of the K&S wiring diagram but can't upload it. Basically there are 3 wires 1) ground 2) + 12 volt constant 3) flasher signal from your handlebar switch

[ThePowster]

Thanks a lot Bob for the reply.

I actually bought this yesterday:



It will take a few days to arrive and I'll let you know what happens when it's installed.

I had not heard of hyperflash before.

I have replaced all the bulbs in my clocks with LED, I wonder if that will make a difference?

If this relay doesn't solve the problems then I will have to go with inline resistors. 

Thanks for the post and I'll keep you posted

[mollusc]

That Honda relay won't solve your hyperflash issue.  It relies on thermal changes to create blinks, whereas newer units use transistors.  LEDs don't have enough resistance to make the old relays heat up enough to work properly.
I'm not a fan of adding resistors to LEDs, especially on lights that are on all the time (such as the front running lights).  Part of the appeal of LEDs is that they draw less power and on these old bikes with weak charging systems, you want to draw as little power as possible.  Adding a resistor is essentially replicating the resistance of the original incandescent filament, changing nothing -- at least in terms of power consumption.
I AM a fan of keeping the front running lights, even if they are not legally required.  Be more visible whenever possible!  This guide describes how to go about wiring some diodes to go from 3-wire to 2-wire front lights:  https://www.hondashadow.net/threads/3-wire-oem-to-2-led-how-to-keep-your-running-light-blinker-combo.116607/

[mollusc]

The site I use to host images is whacked out - not sure why. I have a photo of the K&S wiring diagram but can't upload it.

What hosting site do you use?  I could try to work out how to interface between there and here.

[Bob H]

What hosting site do you use?  I could try to work out how to interface between there and here.

For about 10 years I had been using imgur.com but something radically changed with them in the last week or so.
I can't recommend them. I get a "page not found" for my images although I am logged in and can see my profile at imgur.

The imgur site appears very different. Perhaps they sold the site, something changed.

so I am not able to upload new images to them, can't see the ones I uploaded in the past - but at least the images on forum still work and not a dead link.

[mollusc]

imgur implemented a major change in their Terms of Service in the middle of May 2023.  They also began removing access to "old, unused, or inactive content" at that time.  It's possible you have been caught in that somehow.

Anyway, threadjack over.  Back to turn LED signals!

[Bob H]

This is the K&S flasher that is OK for LED that I used. It comes with the short adaptor wires & connectors.



Again, I had an issue with a gauge indicator that the flasher is on, which screwed things up.
I had no choice but to use the resistors, but that did not reduce the brightness of the flashers.
The reason for the LED compatible flasher was to avoid resistors, but I couldn't get it to work after try 2 different brands.

It has been a few years - as I search now I see that there may be a better solution from superbrightleds with much better reviews. I am going to order one and see if I can ditch the resistors, and may put some of their bulbs into the stock housing rather than aftermarket ones I have.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/cf13gl-02-led-bulb-electronic-flasher-3-pin-black-european-flasher

imgur implemented a major change in their Terms of Service in the middle of May 2023.

OK, that helped. I did a search and followed guidance to click on the 3 dots upper right of Chrome, Privacy & Security, Cookies and other site data, See all site data and permissions, Search for imgur, click on the trash can to delete.

Then log in to imgur again, and it worked.

[ThePowster]

Thanks for the link and all the information here guys.

I'll report back when my relay doesn't work and take it from there lol.

[ThePowster]

Afternoon chaps.

OK so my relay came today and this is what it looks like and what I am left with:

Clearly it's not working well enough for me to take the bike for an MOT to make her roadworthy.

So where do I go from here chaps?

Is the reason for this not working because of the indicator lamp on the clocks? and if I disconnect this would that solve the problem?

Failing that do I have to go down the resistor route as per the link: https://www.hondashadow.net/threads/3-wire-oem-to-2-led-how-to-keep-your-running-light-blinker-combo.116607/

Bit gutted this didn't work 

[mollusc]

It's doing that because the 700S doesn't have a strong enough charging system at idle to make them work properly.  I'm pretty sure that if you rev the engine, you should get a normal flash.
Of course, that doesn't solve your MOT problem.

[ThePowster]

It's doing that because the 700S doesn't have a strong enough charging system at idle to make them work properly.  I'm pretty sure that if you rev the engine, you should get a normal flash.
Of course, that doesn't solve your MOT problem.

Damn that's got me excited so I have to get changed go back to the garage and try this now lol.

[ThePowster]

It's doing that because the 700S doesn't have a strong enough charging system at idle to make them work properly.  I'm pretty sure that if you rev the engine, you should get a normal flash.
Of course, that doesn't solve your MOT problem.

Bloody ell, lad knows his stuff 

Very good mate, you were right !

Revved the engine and then they worked in a fashion that is acceptable. now when I lowered the revs they worked even better for a spell then went back to not working quite right again.

So what have we learned about the voltage and what is the solution here? Is this ever going to work or should I invest in some bulb indicators again and forget LED for now?

[Bob H]

It's doing that because the 700S doesn't have a strong enough charging system at idle to make them work properly.

It seems to me that if I walked up to a fully charged battery, connected 2 wires, any 12 volt indicator should work properly...
What you folks are experiencing sounds like an old magneto system with no battery present.
I have had Hondas from the 1960's 1970's, much older than the 84-86 model 700s and never experienced anything like that.

[mollusc]

It's doing that because the 700S doesn't have a strong enough charging system at idle to make them work properly.

It seems to me that if I walked up to a fully charged battery, connected 2 wires, any 12 volt indicator should work properly...
What you folks are experiencing sounds like an old magneto system with no battery present.
I have had Hondas from the 1960's 1970's, much older than the 84-86 model 700s and never experienced anything like that.

My 700S does exactly this at idle.  A 12v system typically works at closer to 13v when the alternator is charging.  Solid state components seem to be happier there than at straight 12v.