starter chain problem

[Pete in PA]

I'd still pull all the plugs.

Then with all the visual clues you have now try the rear wheel in top gear again. If you get the pistons to move but not the alternator you have your answer.

At this point since you haven't previously had intermittent starter clutch slippage it must be the alt. chain and/or it's tensioner. Starter clutches usually start slipping, they don't fail all of the sudden.

[Hend238]

I definitely did see the vanes move when I bumped the rear wheel but only a tiny bit and called it good. Today's actions proved that I didn't turn the wheel enough.

I will follow the advice about removing all the plugs and try again with the rear wheel, in gear, to be 110% sure. If the clutch is bad and the chain and or tensioner is good then I should see vane rotation but no clutch gear rotation while looking through the starter hole. I'll put my chopstick back in a spark plug hole as well.

Either way this plays out it's not going to be a simple repair as mollusc said.

Stay tuned.

[Pete in PA]

It's a shame, 24k miles is WAY low to have any of these problems.😔

[mollusc]

My starter chain snapped at 24k.

I'm not sure that you won't see the starter clutch moving if it's not heavily loaded.  (Actually, can you see it at all through the hole?)
If it does seem like the chain is still intact (alternator moving when you bump the rear wheel) then maybe it could just be possible to rejuvenate the clutch by spraying it with penetrating lubricant or something.  Let it sit, spray again, etc.
Starter clutch problems do seem to be rare on the 700S, but I have heard of a couple of people having problems with them.

[Hend238]

Yeah it's a shame but I'm ok with it. I'm not losing sleep over it anymore. In the big scheme of life it's not a big deal.

The silver lining in all this is that I will take the opportunity to do some other work on the motorcycle that I was putting off because it wasn't practical. It's all just cosmetic improvements and tweaks. I wasn't going to pull the engine for cosmetic reasons only for example, or the exhaust assembly to ceramic coat the headers. Now I have a good reason. I'll work on that stuff once the engine is torn apart, my assessment is done, and I'm waiting for whatever parts to arrive.

mollusc - you can see a small portion of the clutch and driven gear through the hole. Whether an application of oil through that hole will be effective remains to be seen.

[Bob H]

It's a shame, 24k miles is WAY low to have any of these problems.😔

Agreed. If that was a soccer-mom, Grocery-getter vehicle that would be the subject of a factory recall
At this point, 39 years later, there is too much water under the bridge.

As a comparison, there is a Yamaha Tracer forum member "Old Dawg" who has over 300,000 miles on his FJ-09 and he is on the original clutch with no major repairs on the drive train.  And Yamaha did have cam chain tensioner replacements at no charge.
He is in his 80's and still riding.

The 91-2003 later model NH 750 has the upgraded starter chain, and may also reach 300,000.
I know Loki on the old forum passed 100k

[Pete in PA]

30 some K on my 83 650 Nighthawk back in 83-85 no problems.

This chain design was all to make the engine more narrow. 

Give me a fat dependable engine with the stator on the end of the crank.

[Hend238]

Well, it's the clutch. Pulled the plugs and turned the rear tire in gear over and over again. Pulse gen rotor turns. Alternator cooling fins turn. Chopstick moves up and down.

Found a used clutch and alternator shaft assembly in the UK. I'd rather buy a new one but that looks like an impossibility. Maybe I'll get lucky and be able to repair mine and then I'll have a spare. I'm ok with having spare parts. That used clutch only cost me $70

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Larry Fine]

You figured it out!

[Hend238]

I'm not dancing!! Hahaha.

[Bob H]

I'm not dancing!! Hahaha.

At least you don't have to split the cases to do the repair - glad for you on that.

[Hend238]

I'm not dancing!! Hahaha.

At least you don't have to split the cases to do the repair - glad for you on that.

You know I hadn't even thought of that!  I've already put this project on the back burner until the fall so my mind has moved on to other things. Thanks!

[Bob H]

I've already put this project on the back burner until the fall...

I would drain the carbs if it is going to sit.
My understanding is that the bike was running fairly recently.
I had a job that was out of town about 6 months of the year and I learned to drain the carbs before leaving town.

[Pete in PA]

Ummmm...Don't want to be the downer here, but the starter clutch needs the cases split.

Sorry.☹️

Starter clutches don't usually suddenly die. It's gradual.  You hit the button and it freewheels, stop, hit it again and it works.

I'd try full dino oil with the plugs out and see if the engine will crank.

[Bob H]

the starter clutch needs the cases split.

I have never had an issue with one on a motorcycle. So I am no expert on it. I figured it may come out with the starter...
I do see on the late model 91-2003 manual it describes starter clutch repair in the "engine lower end" section, with the cases split and obvious access to that part.

Here's a forum thread where someone does exactly that on a Nighthawk S and took photos http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=157762.0

The following video at about 6 minutes in, a guy with an 80's Honda 650 gets access to starter clutch without split cases. I don't know how similar that process is to the 1984 Honda Nighthawk S

Starter clutches don't usually suddenly die. It's gradual.  You hit the button and it freewheels, stop, hit it again and it works.

Yeah the guy who had to replace his 80's NH 650 starter clutch makes an interesting reply to someone in the comments.

Sometimes the starter clutch gets sticky and if you can bump start it then take it for a long ride to heat it up it can unstick them.
If the engine isn't turning but the starters still spinning it's the starter clutch. If the starters not spinning at all its the starter, battery, or wiring. Make sure you check your battery as well - most likely issue.