Route planning tools?

[mollusc]

A while back I started to get interested in route planning.  Seems like there are lot of things to consider, so I imagine that there are lots of useful resources and tools available.
I use GPS software in some of my research at work and I've played with Garmin Basecamp a bit, so I have a passing familiarity with the types of data that are used when you get to the point of actually making a route map.  When I've tried making interesting routes in the past, I've usually used a combination of tools like Google Earth and rider forums that make recommendations for specific areas.
And then the other day I stumbled across something called Rever (rever.co) that seems to be oriented in part towards automating the process of picking good rides.  Seems like it might be a good thing to add to my toolbox, but I wonder if anyone has some more experience with it.

And what do y'all do when you want ride somewhere fun?

[Bob H]

...what do y'all do when you want ride somewhere fun?

Due to this thread I revisited the site https://www.rever.co/ and they say "You can access detailed US motorcycle maps powered by Butler Maps, utilize turn-by-turn and voice navigation"

I have not used Rever, but when I was checking them out 2 years ago I did order the (paper) "Butler Map" for where I live in California and was blown away by the research they have done with little known roads in the canyons outside of my usual rides.

Butler motorcycle maps has been around forever, so I can say with confidence that Rever would be suggesting routes based on a strong foundation of research. If I was planning a trip to an unfamiliar or "Bucket List" ride, I would use Rever / Butler Maps.

They mention using your cell phone as GPS, I have not tried that with Rever but with Google mapping it has been a disaster when you get into weak cell service areas. Even with "downloaded maps" to the google mapping program on Android I have had it just stop and fail.
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For me personally, I break this topic into 3 parts.

1. The concept - overall vision
I am fortunate to have an abundance of great roads all around me in California. So typically I am planning a "day ride" or even a 2 hour excursion. I use Google Maps, zoom out from where I live, zoom in to places I am curious about and look for canyons, rivers, places that are going to have twisties. I do at least half of my "exploring" on the mapping and planning stage because I like to be at least somewhat oriented when I poke around somewhere new. I figure out how long I want to be out, loosely when I will return.

2. Route planning - exact start, shaping points along the way, and destination
At the time of this writing, Google Maps will do a "multiple stop" route, shaping the path you want - but forces you to tap on "continue" when you get to the various points that you created in order to shape your route. That is a deal breaker for me, so I use Garmin GPS and that forces me to identify shaping points.

The trip planner app built into (most) Garmin GPS does a great job at multiple shaping points, and letting you move the default path - but it has one fatal flaw. When I am creating a route in remote areas, try to zoom in to place a shaping point (waypoint) the GPS screen does not have the level of detail to show many of the smaller paved canyon routes. No problem if you are moving the route to follow a major road or densely populated area.

The other Garmin product for computer (Basecamp) has all the detail you could ask for. So does Google maps. I use both of those to ID shaping points (an exact address) that I can use to put into my Garmin GPS using the Trip Planner app.

As part of this Route Planning, I use "Google my maps" as opposed to the default thing you may see on a computer when you pull up Google maps. This video was helpful https://youtu.be/yoMl6NRvdSU and this one https://youtu.be/E5Y4hiyq1UM?t=108
With "Google my maps" you have something that doesn't vanish when you shut down your computer, or explore a different route. You can review it later, see the various stops / shaping points listed out on the left and where they appear on the route. You can share this with other people, but you cannot use it for actual navigation while riding.

3. Navigation as I ride.
Currently I am using a Garmin Drivesmart 55 (functions like a Zumo but cheaper and it rarely rains where I live). If the route is created properly, this functions much better for me than a cell phone running Google Maps (don't have to press "continue" when hit the shaping points). If Rever has worked out a way for cell phone to work without signal I would be happy to change over to that.
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Basecamp is a love-hate thing for me. I have had success with creating a great route, import it to Garmin GPS, and had the route work. That is the only real reason to suffer through the learning curve of Basecamp.
But I have had many routes fail. Basecamp will create a route that looks perfect on the computer, but once moved to a GPS you find that you are told to take a U-turn and the sequence is screwed up. Sometimes I discover that I did something wrong when creating the route, and find my error by having Basecamp "preview" the route. Basecamp is a HUGE investment of time to learn, it is not user friendly, but very powerful. I would gladly abandon it to try Rever.

[Bob H]

... I stumbled across something called Rever (rever.co) that seems to be oriented in part towards automating the process of picking good rides.

It does seem really good for that. For route planning it looks GREAT.
I looked more into how it functions for NAVIGATION during a ride, and it seems to suffer from the same grief I get with Google Maps when riding in an area with poor cell signal (though it is supposed to work without cell).
There is a glowing article https://www.advrider.com/rever-should-it-be-on-your-phone/
with user comment "This is likely a paid review or some form of kickback. Its buggy, susceptible to crashing continually and just unusable to me. Have reviewed it several times in the App Store because it's so poor compared to typical GPS systems and mapping apps for phones. Latest version for me crashes regularly, is slow and has Yoda-speak for directions"

[mollusc]

Thanks very much for your detailed and thoughtful input.
I have a Zumo on the bike that I can load up with the same detailed maps that are in Basecamp, so there's no problem navigating outside of service areas so long as your map covers your location.  CoPilot will let you do the same thing on a cellphone (download maps for offline navigation).
I have never used a Butler map, but I do see them all over the Rever site and I know that they sponsor the BDR group as well (ridebdr.com) so I figured they were probably pretty good.  If there is that kind of value in Rever, I may try using it for planning and then just build the navigation in Basecamp, for export to my Zumo.

[Bob H]

... Rever, I may try using it for planning and then just build the navigation in Basecamp, for export to my Zumo.

Right, for those of us who already own a Garmin they are hard to beat.
I just watched a few review videos on people navigating on Motorcycle with Rever on their phone, and a repeating complaint was not recognizing that you did pass a shaping point (waypoint) and it keeps forcing you to go back, to the point of total fail.
Garmin isn't perfect, but they have been at the game a very long time and figured out that if you haven't turned around after a certain period of time, that you need to move on to the rest of the route.